Hello Folks
I bought my first Mercedes a year ago as a long distance work car, due to high mileage 220,000 miles i got it very right money and a year later i could say that the full service history must have been true to its stamps as its been a good car and just goes where i want it without tiring me out
The car is a 220cdi Avantgarde auto 2001 estate 143 bhp.
This is a very clean well minded car so it cannot be written off as just being a dog unfortunately ! things like door hinges and throttle cables have been greased so its been taken care of.
Before someone takes my head off for not using the search bar or google i can assure you i have read more than i can take on 220cdi loosing power problems !
Here is the problem- it will read like most of the others except for the part where a quick turn on and off of the key cures mine instantly.
I start the car i go for a drive all is fine and it feels like a car of 143 bhp, sooner or later i will come to a moment where i need power and find all has gone sluggish after several minutes.,
The car operates the same but the power would definitely be half the full power. foot to the floor will produce a kick down albeit this happens all very lazy and unnaturally.
yes it will rev to the red line while being in this down on power mode- but it feels as if its not getting boost or getting fuel or both
The car can be driving on the motorway and this can happen- it will still hold its 80mph but it just feels wrong and un at ease and the torque isnt there,
The strangest thing is this- i have developed a habit where i turn the key on and off - and everything goes back to normal and it takes off on full power again- but a few minutes later the problem comes back,
Whatever fault i am resetting will completly go away and then come back after a little while ????
I have found that the problem stays away longer during spirited driving... and would show up far sooner on longer hauls of the same throttle position same speed... if i drive about like a boy racer late at night the chances are it will rest full power for the duration of that
I could be behind a truck on the motorway and if i know that its down on power and i want to pass- il give the key a quick on and off and whoosh your away out past the truck.
I am a mechanical fitter by trade so the simple things i have eliminated.
The car is not loosing boost via pipes cracked/ split anywhere,
all filters and fluids are done,
the fuel filter being a MANN, i have read that there was a recall on some filters from mercedes and they adopted another part number. however i find it hard to believe that a paper element made by Mann can produce these faults- lets face it the amount of restriction to block it would be huge.in any case i had this fault on the last filter too whatever brand it was.
I honestly do not know if this problem was in the car when i bought it, because it was snow everywhere last year for the first couple of months of ownership so i really cant say.
Things looked at to date,
Variable Turbo mechanism inspected and working -operating fine.
air filter and all piping inspected to intercooler etc - all ok, engine is bone dry and no leaks.
faulty thermostat has been changed and engine now gets to about 85 on gauge. this also greatly improved MPG and cold feet..
catalytic converters blocked ? doubtfull as an on and off of the key would not fix that and it sounds not in any way obstructed at the tailpipes under load.
on the right hand side of the engine bay looking in i found that there is a small sensor on the boost pipe high up on the right hand side , the two wires to this sensor seemed to have been ripped or maybe - cut ? ah ha i thought and re soldered them back color to color . no change to the fault.
I have thought about re disconnecting them just in case. this looked to be an air inlet temp sensor im guessing as the boost sensor would be closer the turbo. is this sensor very important to the running ?
Air mass meter- have yet not disconnected it to try - but why then has it full power- perfect throttle/load response with a quick on and off of the ignition. one would think that is eliminated
throttle pedal sensor- i don't believe its this, the car is too responsive when running right, again eliminated as above
I have 'stall tested' the engine, foot hard on the brake and give it to it in drive. this loads up the engine to the point where boost builds and you can feel it work, it will hit just below 2500rpm against the torque convertor resistance- with rally car esqu chirping from the wastegate upon release of the throttle, full torque is defiantly building up here and no gearbox slippage.
EGR ... this is maybe where its at as i have blocked mine off, people seem to think that the ECu knows when the EGR is operating via back pressure ? is this true.
With my system- i found a metal ball that i pressed down into the long metal tube that brings the exhaust gas ,This ball is an interference fit so no gas can pass this, i refitted it all back together- actuators and flaps still have their original piping so normally are still doing their job.
Intake stepper motor.
This was what i thought my problem was instantly after some googles,
I have taken off the inlet manifold, had a hot karcher and few cans of degreaser into it , checked all the flaps, refitted it, and watched the operation of the stepper motor from outside while someone else revved the motor in gear to simulate load, very little movement.
So i ordered a brand new pierburg mercedes stepper mottor and fitted it, when i viewed its actions in operation it seemed to snap open and closed almost with the throttle movement under load by a friend in the drivers seat.
Again i thought i had cracked the problem, car felt more powerful on the test drive- but again slipped into lazy mode.
The injectors are not leaking in the head
The engine has no strange noises of pre injection knock, its returning very good mpg as they do.
it changes gear correctly- it sometimes holds onto 3rd gear a bit long so the change up is noticeable but i put it down to high mileage and 11 years old.
no faults show on the trip computer screen.
It is not mapped and the last owner was for 8 years and an elderly gent so i think its always been as Stuttgart intended.
I have not had it on STAR as i don't know where i would find a reliable dealer to perform this where i am . this and the fact im sure its a nuts and bolts repair so i am loathe to pay to hear something we probably already know. A star scan on a 220cdi would seem to point the same faults everytime yet they never seem to be the real reason for the problem,
In any case a great car but they all seem to go through a stage of this after so many years and no one seems to have a definitive answer ! some claim to have fixed it with a new CAT only to report its back again, other claim boost hoses and most of the time people get to fed up to report back so its all open questions,
Its just a headache and seems a waste to have a well engineered car not going as well as it should.
Sorry to be long winded on the above but i highly appreciate you taking the time read it so i figured it was better post everything i know to get the best calculated responses
I bought my first Mercedes a year ago as a long distance work car, due to high mileage 220,000 miles i got it very right money and a year later i could say that the full service history must have been true to its stamps as its been a good car and just goes where i want it without tiring me out
The car is a 220cdi Avantgarde auto 2001 estate 143 bhp.
This is a very clean well minded car so it cannot be written off as just being a dog unfortunately ! things like door hinges and throttle cables have been greased so its been taken care of.
Before someone takes my head off for not using the search bar or google i can assure you i have read more than i can take on 220cdi loosing power problems !
Here is the problem- it will read like most of the others except for the part where a quick turn on and off of the key cures mine instantly.
I start the car i go for a drive all is fine and it feels like a car of 143 bhp, sooner or later i will come to a moment where i need power and find all has gone sluggish after several minutes.,
The car operates the same but the power would definitely be half the full power. foot to the floor will produce a kick down albeit this happens all very lazy and unnaturally.
yes it will rev to the red line while being in this down on power mode- but it feels as if its not getting boost or getting fuel or both
The car can be driving on the motorway and this can happen- it will still hold its 80mph but it just feels wrong and un at ease and the torque isnt there,
The strangest thing is this- i have developed a habit where i turn the key on and off - and everything goes back to normal and it takes off on full power again- but a few minutes later the problem comes back,
Whatever fault i am resetting will completly go away and then come back after a little while ????
I have found that the problem stays away longer during spirited driving... and would show up far sooner on longer hauls of the same throttle position same speed... if i drive about like a boy racer late at night the chances are it will rest full power for the duration of that
I could be behind a truck on the motorway and if i know that its down on power and i want to pass- il give the key a quick on and off and whoosh your away out past the truck.
I am a mechanical fitter by trade so the simple things i have eliminated.
The car is not loosing boost via pipes cracked/ split anywhere,
all filters and fluids are done,
the fuel filter being a MANN, i have read that there was a recall on some filters from mercedes and they adopted another part number. however i find it hard to believe that a paper element made by Mann can produce these faults- lets face it the amount of restriction to block it would be huge.in any case i had this fault on the last filter too whatever brand it was.
I honestly do not know if this problem was in the car when i bought it, because it was snow everywhere last year for the first couple of months of ownership so i really cant say.
Things looked at to date,
Variable Turbo mechanism inspected and working -operating fine.
air filter and all piping inspected to intercooler etc - all ok, engine is bone dry and no leaks.
faulty thermostat has been changed and engine now gets to about 85 on gauge. this also greatly improved MPG and cold feet..
catalytic converters blocked ? doubtfull as an on and off of the key would not fix that and it sounds not in any way obstructed at the tailpipes under load.
on the right hand side of the engine bay looking in i found that there is a small sensor on the boost pipe high up on the right hand side , the two wires to this sensor seemed to have been ripped or maybe - cut ? ah ha i thought and re soldered them back color to color . no change to the fault.
I have thought about re disconnecting them just in case. this looked to be an air inlet temp sensor im guessing as the boost sensor would be closer the turbo. is this sensor very important to the running ?
Air mass meter- have yet not disconnected it to try - but why then has it full power- perfect throttle/load response with a quick on and off of the ignition. one would think that is eliminated
throttle pedal sensor- i don't believe its this, the car is too responsive when running right, again eliminated as above
I have 'stall tested' the engine, foot hard on the brake and give it to it in drive. this loads up the engine to the point where boost builds and you can feel it work, it will hit just below 2500rpm against the torque convertor resistance- with rally car esqu chirping from the wastegate upon release of the throttle, full torque is defiantly building up here and no gearbox slippage.
EGR ... this is maybe where its at as i have blocked mine off, people seem to think that the ECu knows when the EGR is operating via back pressure ? is this true.
With my system- i found a metal ball that i pressed down into the long metal tube that brings the exhaust gas ,This ball is an interference fit so no gas can pass this, i refitted it all back together- actuators and flaps still have their original piping so normally are still doing their job.
Intake stepper motor.
This was what i thought my problem was instantly after some googles,
I have taken off the inlet manifold, had a hot karcher and few cans of degreaser into it , checked all the flaps, refitted it, and watched the operation of the stepper motor from outside while someone else revved the motor in gear to simulate load, very little movement.
So i ordered a brand new pierburg mercedes stepper mottor and fitted it, when i viewed its actions in operation it seemed to snap open and closed almost with the throttle movement under load by a friend in the drivers seat.
Again i thought i had cracked the problem, car felt more powerful on the test drive- but again slipped into lazy mode.
The injectors are not leaking in the head
The engine has no strange noises of pre injection knock, its returning very good mpg as they do.
it changes gear correctly- it sometimes holds onto 3rd gear a bit long so the change up is noticeable but i put it down to high mileage and 11 years old.
no faults show on the trip computer screen.
It is not mapped and the last owner was for 8 years and an elderly gent so i think its always been as Stuttgart intended.
I have not had it on STAR as i don't know where i would find a reliable dealer to perform this where i am . this and the fact im sure its a nuts and bolts repair so i am loathe to pay to hear something we probably already know. A star scan on a 220cdi would seem to point the same faults everytime yet they never seem to be the real reason for the problem,
In any case a great car but they all seem to go through a stage of this after so many years and no one seems to have a definitive answer ! some claim to have fixed it with a new CAT only to report its back again, other claim boost hoses and most of the time people get to fed up to report back so its all open questions,
Its just a headache and seems a waste to have a well engineered car not going as well as it should.
Sorry to be long winded on the above but i highly appreciate you taking the time read it so i figured it was better post everything i know to get the best calculated responses